FREE HEALTH CARE!

[Bluespook]

I've always noticed the irony of the fact that US citizens who are living in "The Land Of The Free" cannot legally visit Cuba.
Strange.

if by irony, you mean we cannot give our money to a country that is a communist dictatorship. Visiting cuba puts our money into the hands of the communists. When castro dies, if the people decide to overthrow the communists, i'd gladly spend my money there. We can't legally visit N. Korea either, for the same reasons.

[Two Hearted]

I've always noticed the irony of the fact that US citizens who are living in "The Land Of The Free" cannot legally visit Cuba.
Strange.

if by irony, you mean we cannot give our money to a country that is a communist dictatorship. Visiting cuba puts our money into the hands of the communists. When castro dies, if the people decide to overthrow the communists, i'd gladly spend my money there. We can't legally visit N. Korea either, for the same reasons.

But should you not be free to "give" your money to whomever you wish? Does it not annoy you that by law you are not allowed to visit a certain country?
Honestly, I never knew about the whole Cuba thing until my brother and his wife went there on vacation several years ago and DH told me that for Americans it was illegal to visit Cuba. Seemed crazy to me.

[Bluespook]

i understand your confusion, but by that reasoning, we would be free to give money to bin laden or other hostile nations or groups?

[Two Hearted]

I see your point Spook, but really, doesn't it grate on you that you are NOT free to go where you please? I'm not saying you'd WANT to go to Cuba, or N. Korea or the like and that is fine. But your choice has been taken away. For some reason this seems wrong to me.
Anyway, not in a debating mood, more in a drinking mood so Cheers! and please, let me buy you your next bev.

[Bluespook]

i'm not in the mood either, i've had my fill of it lately. Drinking mood, now there's a briliant idea. Drinking PBR tonight, for some strange reason... not sure how it happened but that's what's going on.

[ThirstyDrunk]

i'm not in the mood either, i've had my fill of it lately. Drinking mood, now there's a briliant idea. Drinking PBR tonight, for some strange reason... not sure how it happened but that's what's going on.

PBR is my healf care plan

[Mother Goose]

Mother Goose, why do you think socialized medicine is bad? They have it in pretty much every western country except USA and it works great. It is cheaper and provides better care.

Can you cite a source that indicates countries with socialized medicine provide better care?

From everything I've read, countries who have a nationalized health care system have a policy of rationing care. People who need certain non-life-threatening diagnostic care (MRIs, etc.) wait months and months for those tests, while those in the US get those same tests quickly.

Everyone who is debating this controversy is confusing health care with health insurance. Anyone in the US who needs health care can get it. If you walk into an emergency room, regardless of whether or not you have an insurance card, you will get care.

There are many, many people who can afford health insurance that simply choose to not purchase it, simply because they know that if they truly need care, they can walk into an emergency room and get it.

THAT is a problem.

I may sound like a heartless bitch when it comes to this debate, but I know firsthand how this whole industry works and how people know how to work the system. I've had friends who have said to me that they didn't bother taking the insurance their company offers (even if it's virtually pennies a paycheck) because they know they can get taken care of regardless.

[GreatWhiteNortherner]

Two Hearted raises a good point. One I hadn't thought of, really. I mean, this is separate from the health care thing but I sprouted it with the unwatchable CBC video haha.....

You folks can't even legally enjoy a fine Cuban cigar! What's the penalty for such a thing?

And I'm not convinced most Cubans would so quickly condemn communism, though they would, just as quickly as you, condemn dictatorships and authoritarianism.

The only reason Cuba is so financially fucked as it is, is because the greatest imperial power in the world decided to cut it out of their trade routes fifty years ago.....

[Bluespook]

i used to work with a guy who lived much of his life in romania before the wall came down and all that stuff. He escaped communism in the early 80's. It used to blow his mind when anyone said anything good about it, he was amazed and always said that anyone who lived under such a system would never say such things. Haven't seen the guy in 10 years, wonder what he would think today

[GreatWhiteNortherner]

The problem is, as it has happened in any place, really... wherever a government takes upon itself too much power. That's where criticism of Marx really sets in. Power corrupts, right, we know the old quotation. It doesn't matter what socio-economic system it happens in.

Capitalism is just as bad for all the same shit. The Rockefellers and Bush's and on, in spite of all their charities and so forth, are fucking evil as Stalin. I do not wonder why Africa is so fucked. I do not wonder why Canadian resources are not owned by people who live in this country.

Ideal Communism has more to do with a well organized Anarchic system than it does with a fascist system (such as Hitler's Germany or Mussolini's Italy, which seems oft the comparison).

I had a high school teacher who was from Yugoslavia from about the same time. He claimed to be a doctor, but he just laid his head on his desk all the time and slept. That or ate chocolate bars and wrote love letters to one of the other teachers instead of teaching us. He had the same kind of critical things to say about that society. Alternatively, I have met hard working folks who came from there who had the same criticisms.
To place too much weight on the opinion of one person from that area of that era is rather moot. I know many folks who oppose Canada's conservatism, and I know many folks who oppose Canada's socialism. I'm sure there are many who have left the country in opposition to one or the other! The same with the United States. It's a big goddamn world, eh

[TheBigCasino]

I've always noticed the irony of the fact that US citizens who are living in "The Land Of The Free" cannot legally visit Cuba.
Strange.

if by irony, you mean we cannot give our money to a country that is a communist dictatorship. Visiting cuba puts our money into the hands of the communists. When castro dies, if the people decide to overthrow the communists, i'd gladly spend my money there. We can't legally visit N. Korea either, for the same reasons.

Yeah, but on the same note, we can visit countries that support N. Korea and Cuba? We can fly to China or Russia right now, how is that any different?

Hey everyone! We can't fly to Cuba or N. Korea because it's a communist dictatorship and we can't support that, but hey, we can fly to the nations that have been propping them up for decades! Explain to me, how that makes any kind of sense.

[GreatWhiteNortherner]

I've always noticed the irony of the fact that US citizens who are living in "The Land Of The Free" cannot legally visit Cuba.
Strange.

if by irony, you mean we cannot give our money to a country that is a communist dictatorship. Visiting cuba puts our money into the hands of the communists. When castro dies, if the people decide to overthrow the communists, i'd gladly spend my money there. We can't legally visit N. Korea either, for the same reasons.

Yeah, but on the same note, we can visit countries that support N. Korea and Cuba? We can fly to China or Russia right now, how is that any different?

Hey everyone! We can't fly to Cuba or N. Korea because it's a communist dictatorship and we can't support that, but hey, we can fly to the nations that have been propping them up for decades! Explain to me, how that makes any kind of sense.

I have to say, in their defense and at the same time in opposition to popular American opinion, both of those countries are capitalist countries. That's why.

[grippingthewheel]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5C6X9vOEkU

[TheBigCasino]

I have to say, in their defense and at the same time in opposition to popular American opinion, both of those countries are capitalist countries. That's why.

I wasn't referring to their political leanings, I was referring to our inability to fly to nations because they're communist dictatorships, however - we can freely to fly to the nations that prop them up, and the lack of sense therein.

[GreatWhiteNortherner]

I have to say, in their defense and at the same time in opposition to popular American opinion, both of those countries are capitalist countries. That's why.

I wasn't referring to their political leanings, I was referring to our inability to fly to nations because they're communist dictatorships, however - we can freely to fly to the nations that prop them up, and the lack of sense therein.

I know, I was just adding a little aside. China, contrary to what most people want to believe, is a capitalist country with a dictator. America has always liked that setup.