Public Healthcare

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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by Palinka (RIP) » Tue May 21, 2013 12:47 pm

One for the Frog wrote:
ThirstyDrunk wrote:Kill kill kill kill kill the poor.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=owI7DOeO_yg
Better yet, let's Eat The Rich!
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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by coqui_chris » Tue May 21, 2013 3:01 pm

ThirstyDrunk wrote:Kill kill kill kill kill the poor.
Convince the liberals its ok ...
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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by Wingman » Wed Jun 19, 2013 7:32 pm

Bur wrote:Sometimes I do feel like it's a lottery win to be born in Finland, apart from alcohol prices.
i don't understand these words.
Stupid should hurt.

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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by Mr. Viking » Thu Jun 20, 2013 4:32 am

ThirstyDrunk wrote:Kill kill kill kill kill the poor.
or eat the rich
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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by steved2112 » Sun Jun 23, 2013 1:07 am

2400 pages of legislation, unilaterally rammed through with no public review, and implementation particulars to be determined by special interest groups, none of which addresses the issues it ostensibly was crafted to remedy, is not something to be celebrated. Unless you're a health insurance company, in which case your lobbyists have succeeded in making it illegal not to buy your product.
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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by Patchez » Sun Jun 23, 2013 4:26 am

steved2112 wrote:2400 pages of legislation, unilaterally rammed through with no public review, and implementation particulars to be determined by special interest groups, none of which addresses the issues it ostensibly was crafted to remedy, is not something to be celebrated. Unless you're a health insurance company, in which case your lobbyists have succeeded in making it illegal not to buy your product.
They only did it because selling crack and heroin are illegal.
Now you're ready for some anti-dry-otics!-BeerMakesMeSmarter

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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by Mr. Viking » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:11 am

pfft, don't know anything about the medicare system or whatever it's called, but I know the NHS costs a huge amount to run, and in spite of that, and it's enormous size it is somehow very efficiently run and I like it. I like the idea that healthcare is a right, rather than a privilege for those who can afford it, which seems unfair to me. It is what I'm used to and grew up with. On the other side of the coin, in the Irish Republic where a lot of my family live, they have to pay for insurance, which i would be happy to do. It does let down people which chronic illnesses though, who can find themselves difficult or expensive to insure
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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by GSG » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:18 am

I agree with Mr Viking - I was brought up to believe that access to medical care - regardless of your wealth, class, prognosis, criminal record, addictions etc. - should be a right, and one that doesn't leave you bankrupt.
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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by Palinka (RIP) » Sun Jun 23, 2013 11:44 am

What GinSoakedGirl and Mr. Viking said.
"If I had all the money that I've spent on drink, I'd spend it on drink!"
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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by steved2112 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 8:15 am

My philosophy is that government should do as little as possible, and only things that citizens cannot do. I can't provide military support for NATO allies or maintain currency standards between states. I need federal government for that.

I can earn money to pay for health insurance. I do not need the federal government for that.

If they deem healthcare a right, then why should people pay for food? For clothing? For housing? Shouldn't those essentials also be guaranteed by the collective?

Why not take all earned wealth, surrender it to the central planners, and ensure that those with the most need benefit fully from those with the most capability?

Regardless, I have been shown this last November that I belong to a pathetic, irrelevant, and dwindling minority in my conviction that lawyers and politicians aren't my best keepers.
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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by Palinka (RIP) » Mon Jun 24, 2013 9:49 am

steved2112 wrote:...If they deem healthcare a right, then why should people pay for food? For clothing? For housing? Shouldn't those essentials also be guaranteed by the collective?...
In most of Europe, those things are also guaranteed.
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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by steved2112 » Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:24 am

Patchez wrote:They only did it because selling crack and heroin are illegal.
But if you can get ahold of those things enough to get hooked, pretty soon you don't need to pay for housing, healthcare, or food. It's a good system.
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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by Mr. Viking » Mon Jun 24, 2013 11:47 am

steved2112 wrote:My philosophy is that government should do as little as possible, and only things that citizens cannot do. I can't provide military support for NATO allies or maintain currency standards between states. I need federal government for that.

I can earn money to pay for health insurance. I do not need the federal government for that.

If they deem healthcare a right, then why should people pay for food? For clothing? For housing? Shouldn't those essentials also be guaranteed by the collective?

Why not take all earned wealth, surrender it to the central planners, and ensure that those with the most need benefit fully from those with the most capability?

Regardless, I have been shown this last November that I belong to a pathetic, irrelevant, and dwindling minority in my conviction that lawyers and politicians aren't my best keepers.
I see where you're coming from, and I certainly don't think you're pathetic or irrelevant in any way.

I definitely don't believe lawyers are good keepers. One thing about public health is that it doesn't involve a claim process, so most health problems can be sorted with minimal input from a lawyer. I also think anybody who can afford it should take out health insurance, as a lot of people continue to in the UK. There has to be a safety net to ensure that, for example, the child of recently unemployed parents doesn't go without care.

As for the food, housing and clothing, they are actually provided in theory and usually in practice in the UK. All of this is being done with the lowest tax burden we've had for a long time. Probably still pay a lot more than in the US, but I reckon we get our money's worth
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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by GSG » Mon Jun 24, 2013 12:16 pm

I agree that lawyers and politicians aren't our best keepers - they aren't experts in healthcare, defence, education etc. However, I would argue that the role of government is aid in protecting the vulnerable. When you're sick, you're vulnerable. If you can afford medical care then that's great. If you can't...what then? Do we leave them to die? Do we force them into bankruptcy just for having the misfortune to have become ill? I also believe that if people are in a vulnerable situation then they should have the right to support from the state for food and shelter. The need for food is the normal state of affairs and doesn't cost thousands of pounds, therefore you should feed yourself as far as you can. However, should you lose your job do I think that you should be left to starve? No, I think the state should help out there - caring for the vulnerable. ANYONE can fall on hard times, no-one is immune from life's knocks. You could argue that perhaps the NHS should just be kept for those who need it most and everyone else should pay for it. Perhaps, although it makes it easier if everyone just pays in and uses the same system. I doubt the percentage of my tax that funds the NHS costs me any more than medical insurance would cost, in fact I strongly suspect it costs significantly less. I am lucky enough now to have a job that I assume would grant me medical insurance in the US. A few years ago I was not in that position and required prolonged medical care that I would not have been able to afford. I am daily thankful that we have the NHS - for all its faults - to care for people when they are unable to care for themselves.

Viva la welfare state.
"Spiny norman wins on the bizzare terror stakes, if you haven't been stared at by a 40-foot hedgehog, you haven't lived." - Saltandgin

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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by Girlie » Mon Jul 01, 2013 7:25 pm

l... wrote:
frankennietzsche wrote:The way things are and have been, the emergency rooms of public hospitals are America's National Health System.

you are not even joking. the nurse at the hospital gave me a business card to talk to about getting some insurance. I have hospital bills all across the country that i'm not proud of, but I had no other choice, even if it was just for antibiotics, or something stupid like I had yesterday..(needed to get an infected earring out my ear)..when I went, I tried to list all the things wrong w/ my health..trying to kill multiple birds w/ one stone....I got 2/6 done. to the ER staff here, they were very kind, and I had no wait after triage. I got an EKG just because my chest has been hurting...all is well there. but my point is, why can't I just go into a regular doctor every now and again? i'm pushing 40 and I surely need a physical.
ER visits are overused in the US. Most people who go to the ER have other choices, but either don't use them or (more often) don't know about them. I suggest you look for local "Minute-Clinics" and Urgent Care Centers in your area.

A Minute Clinic (at local CVS and Walgreens and the like) are staffed during most store hours (weekends too) with Nurse Practitioners who can write prescription to take care of many minor issues that people go to ERs for - infections like ear aches, strep, and chronic coughs - things that are making it seem like you or your child can't tolerate, but are not life threatening in any way.

An Urgent Care Center can take care of all those ailments that a Minute Clinic can but with more hours and more services. They can treat broken bones (X-ray and other diagnostic testing on site for most) and stitch up wounds that require such care. The feedback I get most from those who use them is that they are far more cost effective and infinitely better at getting you in and out. When you go in for a nasty infection in your ear and there are others there for an auto accident or a possible heart attack, you are going to wait. But when you go to an Urgent Care center, it is pretty much first-come, first-served.

Cheaper for you (and I'd argue for the well-being of our country and economy) and less of your life wasted waiting around.

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