Public Healthcare

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Girlie
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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by Girlie » Mon Jul 01, 2013 8:11 pm

coqui_chris wrote:In the USA you've got two sides there are entirely missing the point ...

Democrats support a national healthcare system because of the gross epidemic of people uncovered by their employers. This National Healthcare System is taxpayer funded. Therefore, taxpayers need to have money to draw revenue from, right? Makes sense. But wait a minute ... That means that the majority of Americans need a middle-class job that gives them a middle-class income. And shouldn't that job just be giving them health benefits as part and parcel of their earnings?
What, in your opinion, constitutes a "gross epidemic" of people uncovered by employers? (Almost 60% of Americans receive coverage through an employer sponsored plan even after the dip in coverage after the passage of PPACA. That doesn't count those who don't work and receive Medicare because of their low earning status nor does it include those who receive Medicare due to age or disability. The uninsured remains about the same at about 16%.) Most large employers already offer coverage as a means to compete for talent and plan to continue to do so. Those who don't are most often small employers who aren't covered by the mandates in health care reform even in 2014.
Giving all Americans a "middle-class income" can only serve to also increase the cost of goods, giving rise to inflation....this does not necessarily pull people out of poverty, but will increase the cost of living for sure.
coqui_chris wrote:The Republicans are indignant to a National Healthcare System. More revenue will have to be raised by higher taxes to pay for this National Healthcare System. Expansion of the welfare system. The nerve! But wait a minute ... The Republicans want to expand free trade agreements, undermine collective bargaining agreements, remove safety regulations and empower employers to further extinguish what few defined pension-plans are available and not be burdened to provide health care ... Thereby necessitating that people go on welfare!

What the fuck am I missing here? Does either party have a clue?
Yes, Republicans do not support a National Healthcare (Single-Payer) System. Much more revenue would have to be generated, for sure. The only way to accomplish that would be to eliminate the current Capitalist structure that allows not-for-profit and for-profit insurers to compete for this business. Some say, "Who cares? Let those big insurance companies go out of business!!". As someone who works in the industry, I can say at what cost that would be. There are millions (millions) of people who work for insurance companies, small and large brokers, businesses that supply those businesses with their business, and others whose jobs would be eliminated if we went to a single payer system. Maybe you and others don't care if those millions of Americans suddenly go out of work (which you probably should in this still sagging economy), but if that is your moral belief, I won't judge you for it, BUT you should care about the loss of revenue for the federal government, when those millions of jobs are gone and the multi-billions in federal revenue of income and business tax are lost because those who were paying into the revenue of the country are no longer able to compete.

How do you institute Single Payer without killing our economy? I'd be impressed (and maybe vote for you) if you could, but no politician (D, R, or I after their name) has a way to do so.

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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by Palinka (RIP) » Wed Jul 03, 2013 7:16 am

Girlie wrote:...no politician (D, R, or I after their name) has a way to do so.
Unless his name was Aneurin Bevan, of course. And now we get to see Mr Jeremy Hunt (the well-known piece of rhyming slang) and Mr David Cameron undo all that hard work...
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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by Frankennietzsche » Thu Jul 04, 2013 10:12 am

This may be relevant and food for thought:
Benjamin Franklin wrote:[Referring to private hospital funding alone:] That won't work, it will never be enough, good health care costs a lot of money, remembering 'the distant parts of this province' in which 'assistance cannot be procured, but at an expense that neither [the sick-poor] nor their townships can afford.' ... '[This] seems essential to the true spirit of Christianity, and should be extended to all in general, whether deserving or undeserving, as far as our power reaches.'
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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by Palinka (RIP) » Thu Jul 04, 2013 11:54 am

Yes but do remember that Ben Franklin was writing in an age before cheap (or any) antibiotics, anaesthesia, safe child-birth etc. These things are now quite reasonably priced and preventative or prophylactic medication can often be given after a short consultation, which, inevitably, saves money in the long run. Simply childhood inoculations save millions of lives and cost pennies to produce. Surely a basic level of free healthcare should be expected in a modern, first-world country?
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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by l... » Thu Jul 04, 2013 12:11 pm

Palinka wrote:Yes but do remember that Ben Franklin was writing in an age before cheap (or any) antibiotics, anaesthesia, safe child-birth etc. These things are now quite reasonably priced and preventative or prophylactic medication can often be given after a short consultation, which, inevitably, saves money in the long run. Simply childhood inoculations save millions of lives and cost pennies to produce. Surely a basic level of free healthcare should be expected in a modern, first-world country?

agree.
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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by steved2112 » Fri Jul 05, 2013 8:34 pm

l... wrote:
Palinka wrote:Yes but do remember that Ben Franklin was writing in an age before cheap (or any) antibiotics, anaesthesia, safe child-birth etc. These things are now quite reasonably priced and preventative or prophylactic medication can often be given after a short consultation, which, inevitably, saves money in the long run. Simply childhood inoculations save millions of lives and cost pennies to produce. Surely a basic level of free healthcare should be expected in a modern, first-world country?

agree.
"Free" is the impossible part.

Prepaid, guaranteed, socialized, mandatory, universal... any one of those words is arguable. But "free" is simply false.
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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by Palinka (RIP) » Sat Jul 06, 2013 6:52 am

steved2112 wrote:"Free" is the impossible part.

Prepaid, guaranteed, socialized, mandatory, universal... any one of those words is arguable. But "free" is simply false.
Sorry, I meant, of course, free to the recipient. Obviously, it would, for most people be "prepaid", probably through a combination of taxation and National Insurance contributions, but for some, such as children, the elderly and the most vulernable members of society, it would be freely provided.
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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by mistah willies » Sun Jul 07, 2013 2:44 pm

Palinka wrote: ...but for some, such as children, the elderly and the most vulnerable members of society, it would be freely provided.
It is, in my tribe. But it helps us if those who earn a living contribute. For the rest of the U.S., there is no choice but to contribute, and it is costly, and there are lazy folks who suck on that artery like a lamprey.
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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by Palinka (RIP) » Mon Jul 08, 2013 2:42 am

tdcwillies wrote:...there are lazy folks who suck on that artery like a lamprey.
It is the weight that must be borne: that a few will milk any system arranged in such a way that many may benefit.
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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by Mother Goose » Wed Aug 07, 2013 11:45 pm

Ugh, I just typed a big thing for this and then it got lost. I pretty much agree with Steve & Beth on this one. I work in the industry, I know what it's been all about for a number of years . . . there are pieces of the reform bill that are good and that will help people. But overall it's not designed to be fiscally beneficial.
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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by Palinka (RIP) » Thu Aug 08, 2013 7:25 am

I think that the problem is that we are trying to compare completely different cultures. As the 8th Lord North said, "The problem is that many Britons think that Americans are British with a strange accent, whereas, in fact, we are as culturally different as any countries that speak different languages."
Or as someone famously, and rather more succinctly, (it seems that no-one can quite agree on the attribution, which is rather appropriate) put it, "[Britain and the USA are] two nations divided by a common language."
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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by Screwball » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:04 pm

I have high blood pressure and arthritis and I take pills to control it. Even with my insurance(first time to have it after working construction for 27 years) it is about $160/month. I've cut down on the pills because I have found that weed helps with the pain at night but I do have the random drug test to worry about. Plus, I don't even treat my diabetes because the pills make me sick.

There has to be a better way.

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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by Palinka (RIP) » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:20 pm

Screwball wrote:...There has to be a better way.
Yes there has.

My friend, if you can scrape together the airfare to get over to the UK, I will not only put you up, but I'll get you logged-in to the NHS and we'll get you treated. That's a promise. Meantime, stay well. I hope to be able to buy you drinks soon.
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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by Screwball » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:31 pm

Palinka wrote:
Screwball wrote:...There has to be a better way.
Yes there has.

My friend, if you can scrape together the airfare to get over to the UK, I will not only put you up, but I'll get you logged-in to the NHS and we'll get you treated. That's a promise. Meantime, stay well. I hope to be able to buy you drinks soon.

Sounds good to me. I'll start up my fire alarm company's UK branch.

You do have building fires over there, don't 'cha? I can protect you all from that kind of shit.

Cheers!

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Re: Public Healthcare

Post by Palinka (RIP) » Thu Aug 08, 2013 4:56 pm

Screwball wrote:...You do have building fires over there, don't 'cha?...
We have the highest per capita load of convicted arsonists in Europe. So, I reckon you'd be very well set up.
Cheers back atcha, mate,
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