Feminism

[GSG]

Discuss, members of patriarchy.

[Palinka (RIP)]

Obviously, we are evil oppressors and, therefore, should have no place here. However, I do suggest that you read Robert Graves on the overthrow of the matriachy, and Alan Moore's "From Hell" (avoid the film, though; it sucks).

[One for the Frog]

Yay for FEMEN

God bless them

[Frankennietzsche]

All these modern 'ism's"...

BAH! I say.

[Bur]

"From Hell" I can recommend, though it is rather graphic at times.

And black und White, so if that bothers you in a comic books...

[Fabricsoftner]

Bourgeois/liberal ideology.

[GSG]

I don't agree with 'bourgeois' I'm afraid, but that's the intersectionalist in me (ho ho). Seeing as you said 'bourgeois' alongside 'liberal ideology', I assume you think it's a bad thing? May I ask why? It'd be nice to chat about it.

[Fabricsoftner]

I was half joking and being a snarky asshole, but on a serious note, I think that Feminism, as it's traditionally thought of mainly focuses on equality from a political stand point, when it's more a social stand point. (the historical dependency of the woman on the man; the nuclear family and its relation to the reproduction of capital, with the female primarily seen as an instrument of reproduction and housewife.) Gender equality and sexual emancipation is as much a class issue as it is a political one. The Patriarchy is able to maintain its power through existing social relations. As long as Feminism identifies with bourgeois values, or makes the issue more of a male vs female issue than one of gender in it's relationship to the mode of production, there will neever be equality.

[Bur]

This is the kind of shit Fabric busts out when he is not dealing with people like me.

[mistah willies]

I was half joking and being a snarky asshole, but on a serious note, I think that Feminism, as it's traditionally thought of mainly focuses on equality from a political stand point, when it's more a social stand point. (the historical dependency of the woman on the man; the nuclear family and its relation to the reproduction of capital, with the female primarily seen as an instrument of reproduction and housewife.) Gender equality and sexual emancipation is as much a class issue as it is a political one. The Patriarchy is able to maintain its power through existing social relations. As long as Feminism identifies with bourgeois values, or makes the issue more of a male vs female issue than one of gender in it's relationship to the mode of production, there will neever be equality.

This is quite eloquent.

Thank you for your intelligent contribution to begin a good discussion.

If you will, please allow a noob here to also contribute.


In my own culture, the idea of equality has truly never been the idea of a woman acting as a man, or the other way around.

For us, it was equal simply as respect for the abilities each gender has due to their inherent, biological makeup.


Thoughts?

Anyone?

Anyone?


Bueller?

[Fabricsoftner]

"If in certain circumstances the short-term tasks of women of all classes coincide, the final aims of the two camps, which in the long term determine the direction of the movement and the tactics to be used, differ sharply. While for the feminists the achievement of equal rights with men in the framework of the contemporary capitalist world represents a sufficiently concrete end in itself, equal rights at the present time are, for the proletarian women, only a means of advancing the struggle against the economic slavery of the working class. The feminists see men as the main enemy, for men have unjustly seized all rights and privileges for themselves, leaving women only chains and duties. For them a victory is won when a prerogative previously enjoyed exclusively by the male sex is conceded to the “fair sex”. Proletarian women have a different attitude. They do not see men as the enemy and the oppressor; on the contrary, they think of men as their comrades, who share with them the drudgery of the daily round and fight with them for a better future. The woman and her male comrade are enslaved by the same social conditions; the same hated chains of capitalism oppress their will and deprive them of the joys and charms of life. It is true that several specific aspects of the contemporary system lie with double weight upon women, as it is also true that the conditions of hired labour sometimes turn working women into competitors and rivals to men. But in these unfavourable situations, the working class knows who is guilty. ..."

http://www.marxists.org/archive/kollont ... -basis.htm

[One for the Frog]

I can see women amongst my friends who just don't have enough time to fulfill the feminist and the uncompromising mother they have in them.
I think that "feminist" part of them is not natural, that's why there is a clash inside.
On the other hand I know some who can handle this, but it's just much easier to go for self-actualization when you earn enough to still have time for your family. (this applies to men, also)
I think what we generally see as feminism in the world is a wrong thing. The idea is noble, but it is implemented in a shitty way. It was implemented by women who think like men, that's the problem here.

[Judge]

Listen Mr. Frog....just because you like to wear a frilly frock showing off your hairy armpits doesn't make you a feminist.

[Palinka (RIP)]

Listen Mr. Frog....just because you like to wear a frilly frock showing off your hairy armpits doesn't make you a feminist.

But it does get her a surprising amount of free drinks.

[One for the Frog]

I never thought I was one, but hey, anything for free beers.