FREE HEALTH CARE!

[Mother Goose]

Sigh.

I tried to resist, really, I did . . .

As someone who works for one of the country's largest insurers, I grow weary of listening to the supporters of this legislation saying how greedy our industry is, and how we've destroyed the HC system in the US. Those same greedy health insurance carriers spend big bucks on promoting wellness initiatives, consumer-focused programs, and transparency of the overall healthcare distribution system. Certainly I will be the first to say that there are major issues, the system is broken - but the blame should not fall solely on the health insurers. The reason this bill is a fucking joke is because there are no apparent provisions to fix the biggest parts of the problem - cost containment and quality of care.

The health insurance industry has been supportive of well-thought-out reform from day one, but there's nothing in this bill to address what can really help fix the system. The reimbursement model needs to move to a performance-based model, where providers aren't rewarded for quantity, but rather quality of care - improvements to the overall health of the patient . . . appropriate diagnostics and treatments for conditions . . . rather than just more and more unnecessary outpatient procedures, radiology screenings and lab panels because it puts a few extra bucks in the provider's pocket.

The idea of a complete elimination of the pre-existing conditions clause is going to completely bankrupt the entire system, as well. If they are truly going to mandate coverage, then they also need to require individuals to purchase insurance within a certain time frame - and those who choose to go against the mandate need to be penalized not only financially, but in the form of denial of care on the basis of pre-existing conditions. I know this example has been overused during this whole debate, but honestly - I'd much rather wait to buy my car insurance until AFTER I run into a tree or rear-end a Lexus, right? And the alleged 'penalties' for not purchasing insurance are a joke too. I'd much rather pay a $700 tax penalty than pay $1200+ for an insurance policy for a year. That's a no-brainer, right? Especially when I can just buy my insurance AFTER I get sick, or contract a chronic disease, or fall off a ladder and break my leg.

Understand that I do consider myself a moderate, and generally am supportive of most social programs designed for the 'greater good.' But this one isn't going to do anything but lead us down the road to full-blown socialized medicine, where care is rationed, quality of care is compromised, and the idea of choice and flexibility becomes a thing of the past.

OK, rant over. I need a drink!

[Frankennietzsche]

"...only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be fully left behind and society inscribe on its banners: from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. "

[felinamojokitty]

"...only then can the narrow horizon of bourgeois right be fully left behind and society inscribe on its banners: from each according to his ability, to each according to his needs. "

the pillar of socialism...is to take hold of a peoples healthcare..

bourgeois --ick
booze-wa--hello

[Chimneyfish]

Hey, I didn't say that everyone who opposes the healthcare bill are nothing but a bunch of dumb racist rednecks ...

Oh I wasn't talking about anybody on here. I just meant that in my daily life, a lot of the people I've heard who support the bill can't ever seem to explain the economics behind the benefits it'll supposedly bring the country. Their entire focus right now seems to be proving that the Tea Bag Party is a bunch of nuts, and since they oppose the legislation then the legislation must be good. The fact that some people yelled the word "faggot" at Barney Frank is hardly an argument in favor of universal health care. It gets annoying to people like me- non-Republicans with plenty of rational reasons for opposing the bill- when liberals act like making personal attacks against people I'm not associated with is a valid argument disproving all my logical disagreements about the legislation.

[felinamojokitty]

Sigh.

I tried to resist, really, I did . . .

As someone who works for one of the country's largest insurers, I grow weary of listening to the supporters of this legislation saying how greedy our industry is, and how we've destroyed the HC system in the US. Those same greedy health insurance carriers spend big bucks on promoting wellness initiatives, consumer-focused programs, and transparency of the overall healthcare distribution system. Certainly I will be the first to say that there are major issues, the system is broken - but the blame should not fall solely on the health insurers. The reason this bill is a fucking joke is because there are no apparent provisions to fix the biggest parts of the problem - cost containment and quality of care.

The health insurance industry has been supportive of well-thought-out reform from day one, but there's nothing in this bill to address what can really help fix the system. The reimbursement model needs to move to a performance-based model, where providers aren't rewarded for quantity, but rather quality of care - improvements to the overall health of the patient . . . appropriate diagnostics and treatments for conditions . . . rather than just more and more unnecessary outpatient procedures, radiology screenings and lab panels because it puts a few extra bucks in the provider's pocket.

The idea of a complete elimination of the pre-existing conditions clause is going to completely bankrupt the entire system, as well. If they are truly going to mandate coverage, then they also need to require individuals to purchase insurance within a certain time frame - and those who choose to go against the mandate need to be penalized not only financially, but in the form of denial of care on the basis of pre-existing conditions. I know this example has been overused during this whole debate, but honestly - I'd much rather wait to buy my car insurance until AFTER I run into a tree or rear-end a Lexus, right? And the alleged 'penalties' for not purchasing insurance are a joke too. I'd much rather pay a $700 tax penalty than pay $1200+ for an insurance policy for a year. That's a no-brainer, right? Especially when I can just buy my insurance AFTER I get sick, or contract a chronic disease, or fall off a ladder and break my leg.

Understand that I do consider myself a moderate, and generally am supportive of most social programs designed for the 'greater good.' But this one isn't going to do anything but lead us down the road to full-blown socialized medicine, where care is rationed, quality of care is compromised, and the idea of choice and flexibility becomes a thing of the past.

OK, rant over. I need a drink!

thank you for the view in the trenches MG..

it is exactly what the admin wants to do hence ushering in the public option.. there are many other ways to reform..

now all americans are potential criminals for not buying something we should NOT be forced to..

as i said before for the record we have no insurance currently..

still i am against this form of the bill/law and how it was acquired.

though do people know that they can negotiate a cash price and payments for medical expenses?

our primary great doc absoloutely cool after cobra ran out said don't be scared to come to me--office visit $50 flat price

i have a pre existing condition (cervical stenosis and severe athritis in my 47 year old neck) was approved for catastrophic yet when i asked about situations..if say i went out to get my mail and a car turning on our dangerous speeding street hit me and my neck back was injured they would not cover it because my neck is a pre-existing condition..

why in the hell would i pay 400 bucks a month with a $7500 deductible ?? if my main concern is my neck spine?

i will take the risk..makes for a safe aware life...and trusting your own common sense and choices..and being accountable

told close people if i am almost dead let me die.. and it is in my will
not being a martyr i would rather have any of my personal assets go to family..not trying to keep my ass alive.

[Chimneyfish]

The idea of a complete elimination of the pre-existing conditions clause is going to completely bankrupt the entire system, as well.

Yeah exactly. It's the equivalent of being allowed to buy fire insurance after your house burns down. Insurance companies should be left free to fairly calculate the costs of the risk they are taking on with each costumer- as every other type of insurance is allowed to do. Increased competition among insurance companies is only going to lower prices and improve the quality of the product, just like how increased competition affects ever other industry in the world. There seems to be this idea these days that any company with the intent of making a profit is evil for doing so. I don't think people realize how handcuffing the insurance companies will also hurt all the customers of those companies. There's just no way that this bill will reduce premiums- especially not by the $2500 that Obama promised.

[felinamojokitty]

oh well

[NYDingbat]

Mark of the beast Obomba muslim marxist socilast HITLER!!!!! is not a real reason, it's ridiculous and embarrassing.

Why are you telling us that? Are you just making a random observation or is it directed towards something posted in this thread?

How far do you have to look? On the same page Bluespook was talking about "enviro nazis", socialists and Marxists also are a part of his vocabulary when Obama is the topic. Just read any post by NYDingbat, read between the lines on kitty's. What I said was a condensation of the most ridiculous that we sadly see even on this board. It was hyperbole and that was pretty obvious all they way to the the enlarged font.

Just several examples. Government takeover of much of the banking industry and two major car companies - no, no, no that's not Marxist. A government mandating its citizenry purchase health insurance (or anything for that matter) or they'll be fined and possibly imprisoned - nooooo THAT'S not Marxist either. And lest we forget "From each according to his ability from each according to his needs" expressed as "spreading the wealth around" nowadays:

http://www.nationalpost.com/news/story. ... login.aspx

We already are being squeezed on the latter, thanks to both parties. That a chunk of my hard earned money goes to some people who need help TEMPORARILY, I'm good with. But when it goes to able bodied people who simply refuse to work, it infuriates me. And yes, I know from whence I speak. While a phone company rep I had to constantly deal with shiftless, lazy 18 year olds who had now starting receiving welfare payments and were now calling for discounted LifeLine phone service. This thanks to my tax dollars.

But the first two examples are even more despicable and tyrannical. They will not stand. We will defeat this anti-American lurch to turn our beloved country into a thoroughly socialist state.

Now I'm gonna go make with the hooch.

[DeeboCools]

Tea baggers. Good golly! Ya sure blindsided us with that one!! Yes, yes, we know, we know, you're willfully perverting the name we've chosen to go by just to get your chuckle and elbow each other in the ribs and wink and spew about how damned clever you are. And boy you sure shut us up with that, didn't you? But it's typical statist behavior; stultifyingly unable to argue the facts so just berate the whole group of people and lie about them and smear them and hope they go away. Well, forget that. We are going nowhere. And we will not be silenced. And in the end, YOU WILL NOT WIN.

And those of you labeling the entire movement as nothing but a bunch of "dumb racist rednecks" are ignorant and uninformed. I am a tea party member and am none of the aforementioned.

I say Teabagger because it gets to them, I don't respect them, and "Tea Partier" or whatever gives them way too much credit. They're not fighting anything even close to imperial britain, and They're not as intellectually sound as the men who dumped british tea into bostons harbor dressed like indians(that's right, they're not even THAT good).

You act as if every one of my posts said "Teabagger! HA!!1" and nothing else. I presented alot of my fundamental beliefs about the issue at hand and you clearly don't care to address them. Which is fine, but my guess is you don't actually read differing opinions, because that would go against the entire ethos of "YOU WILL NOT WIN!", right? This is my biggest problem. Protest and dissent is well and great as long as there's substance to it. All the Tea-fuckers have done is say "I'm mad! I'm here forever! I'm like a revolutionary or some shit!" give me a break. If you're gonna clown put on a red nose and get paid.

[DeeboCools]

and I'd like to reitterate, again, that I don't agree with the bill. and I'm definitely not a tea party member. One need not lead to the other; The tea-gentlemen have a much larger crtique(at their most cogent moments) of anti-leftism. I can't get behind that, and what's doubly irritating is that to an actual leftist, Obama is not much different than bush.

This all started because I alluded to demilitarization, and was promptly called a marxist(though "hippie" would've hurt worse) and "anti-american". Which really hurts my feelings, to be honest, because I love this country and it's people and have no "Europe is superior" or "castro is my fucking homeboy!" ideals. I'm a lefist(Card carrying member of the IWW), and a pacifist(down to fist-fighting), and both of those things have long, storied histories in the United States. I'm an American leftist. They've always existed, They always will, and the real ones don't vote for people like Obama, and stay critical of all government. I just don't have to threaten to kill members of government to do it, like the Tea-assholes apparently half to.

[DeeboCools]

and I don't have insurance, I always bargained with doctors if I was sick, as discussed here. Most of them worked with me. People would tell me to just go to free clinics and I'd say "umm... I can afford it, so I'll pay". That's the kind of blood-sucking leftist I am.

[Negromancer]

Welcome to the club!

In Norway some people get pissed off because they have to pay litteraly a couple of dollars in administrative fees when they visit the doctor. "It's supposed 2 be free! >;€"

[felinamojokitty]

for general information how things will unfold when.

from the ways and means site timeline of tax increases:


http://republicans.waysandmeans.house.g ... elinel.pdf

[coqui_chris]

Hey, I didn't say that everyone who opposes the healthcare bill are nothing but a bunch of dumb racist rednecks ...

Oh I wasn't talking about anybody on here. I just meant that in my daily life, a lot of the people I've heard who support the bill can't ever seem to explain the economics behind the benefits it'll supposedly bring the country. Their entire focus right now seems to be proving that the Tea Bag Party is a bunch of nuts, and since they oppose the legislation then the legislation must be good. The fact that some people yelled the word "faggot" at Barney Frank is hardly an argument in favor of universal health care. It gets annoying to people like me- non-Republicans with plenty of rational reasons for opposing the bill- when liberals act like making personal attacks against people I'm not associated with is a valid argument disproving all my logical disagreements about the legislation.

I have to agree with you there.

Like I said, I don't know where I stand on the bill. I've worked at a soul-crushing job for the past 4 years just for the simple fact that it provides health insurance, so I'm more on the side of the "I don't know about this ..." Of course, like I said, I don't know about this, so it could be good. It could be very very bad.

But you've got to admit that the teabaggers are retarded. I have an old friend from high school who is a teabagger. He also tried to get me to watch that movie Zeitgeist one time. On Christmas Eve I saw him at the bar and thought to myself "What could possibly go wrong with going up to R---- and wishing him a Merry Christmas?" That's when he asked me how I was liking Obama's boot on my neck, and if I was getting as used to it as he was. Apparently, a lot could've gone wrong with wishing R--- a Merry Christmas.
Also, R--- doesn't understand NASCAR, he isn't racist at all to my knowledge, and he lives in Germantown. But he likes Infowars and Ron Paul and tried to give everybody free cdrom copies of "The Obama Deception," all of which I think requires some kind of mental deficiency greater than the ability to watch modified automobiles turn left for four hours.

[Mayhem]

NASCAR has a couple of road courses, you mouth-breathing twat.